Friday, October 30, 2009

WOW, that was fast! J. already replied! Please, someone help...

Anyone care to try to figure out this 'rebuttal' for me? I'm seriously thinking of getting myself a beer. Is it too early?? Nope, 12:19 p.m. YAY! Please see post below this one for how it all got started.

When I said "open to the Rapture or not" what I was actually referring to is the Western church's mentality that somehow, we're going to miss out on any of the persecution b/c it will occur before the real stuff happens. I've never believed that. I believe very much that we are in eiother the true end times, or the Western Civilization end times...and either way we are going to face persecution. Actually it has already begun in a mental/political sort of manner. Just as in the Hiding Place and other elements attached to WWII, many Europeans, Christians and otherwise, didn't figure out what was going on until it was too late. I will live until the Lord calls me home. That's it. Whether it's today, tomorrow or a decade or two from now, it will be in accordance to His plan for my life. That's all I'm concerned about. The scripture the Lord dropped into my life about all of this back in the 70's when it was a constant part of the church, and I can't pull it out in full form at the moment, basically that we need to do each day what we are called to do and that's it. So I've focused on that. Now whether the rapture is real or not isn't an issue. It IS. The unreal issue is "when"...and that's what the people fuss over - pre/mid/post/or pan tribulation. I have read the info that's put out by the various sources. However, I am not a 'pre trib' person in general. As my pastor in California said in '72, "What makes us think we're going to get off 'scot-free?'" I agree with that. And I've always felt that the Lord has been preparing me to deal with helping others who are undergoing persecution, helping them flee, etc. So that's my focus in that area.

4 comments:

Joyful Catholics said...

Pre/mid/post/or pan tribbers? SHEESH, do we need a MAGISTERIUM or what!!??? Dear God, help us! I guess it makes not one bit of difference what one believes about the Rapture of if one doesn't believe in it at all. How convenient. I'd be glad to hear some of your comments, and what I might possibly 'rebut' this rebuttal with, too. This is a paradigm I just can't grasp, but happily I can grasp my Miller Lite. I'm thanking God for thumbs at the moment.

Tiber Jumper said...

I would attempt to agree with her that Yes, we know and believe Jesus is going to return at the end of time, but it is not up to any of us to know the day or the hour or write books about it and preach about it ad nauseum.
We also know from the Church's 2000 year interpretation of the Scripture that the rapture, a separate return of Christ followed by a later gathering at the end of time is not found in scripture unless cobbling together several unrelated scripture and ignoring the fact that 1800 years of of teaching before this has never mentioned the rapture.
I think you have to ask her how it can be acceptable that protestants are allowed to pick and choose what to believe about the last days. Are they also allowed to pick and choose about what they believe about salvation baptism, arminiansim vs calvinism?
Charismatics gifts vs no charismatic gifts for today.etc etc. How do they know which teachings of the Bible are important vs less important?
Perhaps you can gently explain that though all Catholics don't necessarily accept or abide by official teaching of the Church, there are indeed non negotiable teaching/Truth that has not changed or been abridged to adjust for the changing times.
It all comes down to authority, and your friend's unwillingness to accept any pope other than her own intellect(or fav bible teacher ) as her pope.
God bless you that you still have evangelical friends willing to engage you in discussion.You must be doing something right! Mine have long since vanished as the wall of silence has grown since my conversion.

Joyful Catholics said...

Thank you so much TJ. I really appreciate it. Rich says the same thing, it DOES come down to authority. I'll try my best to offer more to her, but she's a tough, stubborn nut (as I once was and still am on some things The same thought came to me about what other things they're "picking and choosing" i.e. baptism, salvation,etc. I' didn't think about Aminianism vs. Calvinism. That's a good one! I am glad she's written and not 'written me off' but I'd be amiss to say I don't "feel it coming." THe silence you mention has also been quite "loud" in my life by some of my old friends, too. I get "ignored" quite a bit, but hopefully, if I keep "pestering" them with "Catholic laced e-mails" or on my FB wall, they'll one day find something or go to some link and something might just 'click' like it did for me. God bless, TJ. Thanks bro!

Tiber Jumper said...

you're welcome Sue, God bless you for your efforts to spread the Truth