Wednesday, April 02, 2008

Reflection on Truth...


Today, April 2, is the 3rd anniversary of beloved Pope John Paul II's passing through the veil, into Heaven, to join all the Saints of God at His Throne. I miss him. I love him and I hope to see him to thank him for his prayers... someday. It is due to his prayers I'm sure, and those of so many faithful others, that we finally did return to the CC.
We found ourselves on the banks of the Tiber in Dec. 2004, and both jumped in and swam like never before, to get to the other side. I for one, was most amazed at taking the plunge, and this new-found love inside me for this Church that I thought had been too stodgy, too old-fashioned, too structured, too rigid with way too many "man-made" rules. I thought Catholics were sort of "pathetic" to be required to go to Mass on Sundays. Those "traditions of men" weren't going to ensnare me, for I was free from all of that stuff...or so I thought. I now have seen the beauty in and of authority and order. Just as God is not the Author of confusion, but Order itself, He is not chaos and contradiction for he cannont contradict Himself.
So, here was the 64,000.00 question: "Why would his Church be conflicted and offer contradicting doctrines?" A question I was forced to confront..in my own heart 3 years ago. Truth is always "confrontational." Truth will always 'hit us between the eyes. Truth confronts us every day with every choice we make, every decision, every time we open our mouths or keep them closed, we're confronting Truth and Truth aka: Jesus Christ, confronts us. He did just that one weekend in Dec. 2004. I wasn't expecting a confrontation at all, Friday, Dec. 3. Then Rich got home and told me of his desire to return to the Faith of his youth....
Well, what a sense of humor our God has! The joke was surely on me! I grin like a Cheshire cat now to remember it! Why, I swam even faster than my husband! He is still amazed by my voracious appetite for Traditions, ritual, prayers (even written ones in prayer books!!) quiet adoration, the rosary, incense, candles, shrines, you name it... let's just say "all things Catholic!" I am only full of gratitude to be back Home and today, I want to thank my Papa, JPII for answering the call of God on his life and being such a faithful Shepherd to the flock. JPII WE LOVE YOU! WE MISS YOU! and as you're no doubt still busy in Heaven praying for us, please pray us all Home...to our eternal rest! You are nearer to us now than you ever were on earth. Please pray us home to enjoy the beatific vision of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Your lost and found lamb,susie

6 comments:

Gregory Mathew Kuglin said...

Dear Susie,

Thank you for putting into words the straightforwardness and coherence of the Lord God and His church.

"Just as God is not the Author of confusion, but Order itself, He is not chaos and contradiction for he cannot [sp] contradict Himself.
So, here was the 64,000.00 question: "Why would his Church be conflicted and offer contradicting doctrines?"

I am so glad that you have pinpointed this way to test for the true church (I'm not sarcastic either). I thank God.
This is the bullseye of the debate between reformers,'heretics',separated bretheren, protestants, and the Roman Catholic Church. When we look at many of the doctrines the the RCC adheres to, they are crushed under the words of the Bible that outrightly speak against such practices, making them questionable and doubtful.

When a person holds two ideas that are both said and believed to be true, and evidence is given to them that these two arent the same, but actually work against one another, at least for the sake of such love for truth that person would be wise to check it out. Afterwards, the God of Truth would be glorified; whether such an investigation proves their first beliefs to be true and stable, or they found out some were erroneous.


I pray that youll investigate into the scriptures yourself, and then know for yourself what and who is out of context. Though the Pope says his is the one true church, this can only be sure if it were not "conflicted and offer[ing] contradicting doctrines", and is in line with what we know is of the LORD; His word the Holy Bible.

Sincerely,
Greg

Joyful Catholics said...

The Sacred Tradition of the RCC and the Bible dont' contradict each other at all...nor does the Magisterium. All three are needed for the FULLNESS of Truth. When one is confronted with the fullness of Truth, it is up to that person to "seek, knock, and ask".... The Roman Catholic Church IS THE ONE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. He established it, and you'd best take it up with Jesus, Greg. Thanks for trying to set me straight, and 'save me' but you are sadly misled, misinformed and misguided. The Holy Spirit is telling me that the RCC is the One True Church. He's telling you something different. Hmm, wonder with one of us will be found to be correct? One of us has to be.

Peace,
susie

Gregory Mathew Kuglin said...

The Catholic church does work against the Bible, and I have shown you with the verses I have written to you, and those posted on my blog.

Let's look at this one simple doctrine for example. The RCC has given the title of "Father" to priests, bishops etc. The Pope calls himself 'Holy Father', and so you follow suit by calling him "papa".

But the Bible says clearly in Matthew 23:9- "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven".

The single example of the use the title Holy Father in the Bible is seen in John 17:11- "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are".

I could easily come to you and tell you that I'm a duck. But no matter how much I insist on it, and no matter how long I convince people that I'm a duck, I'm of course not a duck (I neither look nor sound like one). Because we know what a duck is and what they do, picking out what isnt a duck is easy.
So we both agree that the Bible is a true Christian text, so why don't we look here to see what a duck, er, Christian should be like?

Please dont just assume that the big three (scripture, tradition, and the magisterium) agree just because this is what you are told by the very ones trying to be ducks, something that they are not of course. Of course this is what they'd tell you! Just as I would keep insisting that Im a duck, if I cant provide any tangible evidence that I am, and the evidence that I do provide and recommend (lets say its a book on ducks) shows point by point how unduckly I am, then why should people continue to listen to me?

This is exactly what the Roman Church has done. This pope has stated like those before him that his church is the one true church of Christ, and even has a book about it called the Bible. Lets look at this book and see what a christian and their church should really be like.

You have shrugged off certain Bible verses that I have given you, saying that I have taken them out of context. Then read them for yourself; read the whole chapter, or the whole book (this would only make me happier) and see the context for yourself. Dont just assume that I warp them, just because it is a different than what others have told you. SHOW ME how I warp them, and take them out of context.

The RCC tells you to call your church leaders father through tradition and magisterium, and also tells you NOT to call anyone on earth father at the same time in the Bible! How can this be any kind of truth, let alone the FULLNESS? This is contradiction and error, not a sign of truth.

Take your own advice, and seek, knock and ask of the Bible. Seek out the truth in it (you already know it is there), keep at it, and ask questions. Do the same to the RCC; if it is truth it will stand up to scrutiny.

I first began questioning the RCC because I asked Jesus what was up, and what he was saying about truth. I took it up with Him; I went to where I knew we could find his words for sure. I went to the Bible. That's when I began to question and doubt th RCC; one can see for themselves in the Bible that the RCC does not have its ducks in a row.

Greg

Joyful Catholics said...

As I keep on saying, you are sadly misled, misguided and misinformed with a huge axe to grind. That's a shame,but I will keep on praying for you, Greg. It [the RCC] is the ONE TRUE Church, it's stood the test of time, just like it's founder, JESUS said, for over 2000 years.

You keep saying the same things. And so do I. I implore you...Learn your history! Read the Early Church Fathers. I don't think that those who sat UNDER THE HAND PICKED APOSTLES of Jesus, were wrong, or the next generation(s) went off the rails. St Justin Martyr told/wrote about the Mass.

You show me ONE early Christian who said the Eucharist was only a symbol, and I'll leave the CC. But if I can show you 15 who communicated the real presence of Jesus in the bread/wine, as is HIS FLESH AND BLOOD, then what will you do? You can find them all for yourself. I won't be writing anymore here to you. They're easily found on any TRUE Catholic website, catholic.com, EWTN, etc.

Satan himself knows where the REAL PRESENCE of Jesus Christ is,Greg. The CC! He (satan) doesn't hold black bible studies, or black prayer meetings or black small group studies, or black "mission conferences" but BLACK MASSES. That should tell folks something, should it not? He's the one who tries to "copy" God,and twists the TRUTH to lead others astray. Why would the Evil one have black masses, and rob sacristies in so many rural Catholic Churches of vestments for occult worship services if the CC wasn't the ONE TRUE CHURCH? THINK about that...THINK, Greg.

Please go to the numerous places I told you to earlier, go and LEARN what the CC really believes and stop spreading these lies and false notions about the Church Jesus established. Your attempts to 'get me saved" are futile. Either the CC is what it says it is, or it's a diablolical cult. You seem to think it's the latter, and I don't. I KNOW it is the ONE TRUE CHURCH of Jesus. His TRUE BRIDE.

www.biblechristiansociety.com
all c.d's are free. GO AND LEARN. If you are not going to be open to even doing that, I don't know what to say. I WAS and EVANGELICAL for nearly 30 years. I was "born again" at 19. Was I or was I not saved? If so, HOW DO YOU KNOW, Greg? Do you see people's hearts and know who's saved and who isn't? I thought only God can know a persons heart.

The whole "call no man father" issue is so simple to correct, but only if you have ears to hear and eyes to see and are open to God's grace, Greg. I said the same darn thing to many a Catholic back in my "know it all" 20's. Well, come to find out in my 50's that I WAS WRONG. I can admit that...now. It took 26 years for me to see how mistaken and misled I was.

I take Jesus literally when he says in John 6, 'This is my Body" "This is my blood." Some 4 times in a row he adamantly says that about his flesh/blood. Those hearing him find it a "hard saying." What would be so hard about saying something is a symbol? Why die for a symbol? Did his body not hang on a cross? Did not his blood flow from his wounds? Or was he only "symbolic: on the cross? I wasn't saved by an empty cross and I don't get life from 'eating a symbol' or "twisting His very words" to say something he DID NOT SAY. Seems Bill Clinton wasn't only one to parse the word "is." You and folks like you, as I once was, did the same thing and still do with "This IS my body." Jesus meant what he said. He's our paschal sacrifice. The ongoing sacrifice of redemption is ongoing at each and every Mass. We don't 'resacrifice' Jesus. His death on the cross was for sure, "once and for all" but the efficaciousness of that death is still going on...for that's what being redeemed by the blood means...still, to this day.

The Jews in the OT didn't eat a TOFU lamb, or a 'symbolic lamb' but a REAL LAMB, the one that they sacrificed was eaten. Jesus, his body and blood, which he said is TRUE FOOD AND TRUE DRINK is only eaten in One Church, the CC and the Eastern rites and Eastern Orthodox, which does have valid religious orders as the RCC acknowledges.

Your fellowship, if you go to one, only says it's a symbol. How so? I mean, THE BIBLE SAYS "THOSE WHO EAT MY FLESH AND DRINK MY BLOOD HAVE LIFE WITHIN THEM." Jesus in NO WAY shape or form said the bread and wine is just a symbol. How do you get away with thinking it is? Christians DIED for the Eucharist,Greg, long before the NT was written! Apostolic tradition was passed on, long before any written words, that's a FACT.

How many ways can one beat a dead horse? Haven't we battered this equine corpse long enough? I'm NEVER going to buy the verses you send me that are completely taken and quoted out of context. Never.

As I said above, go to
biblechristiansociety.com, or
catholic.com and LEARN the Faith of your youth. You were obviously poorly catechised, as was my husband and as was I, sad to say. Iam a convert, a TRUE convert now and have plunged into the Tiber and will never go back to reading the menu, when in the CC I can din on Christ Himself at the Eucharistic sacrifice. He gives us HIS FLESH and HIS BLOOD. I will settle for nothing less any longer! You can look at a menu all you want, but when you're hungry, it's nice to finally be brought what you ordered, so you an eat, isnt' it?

This is the last comment I'm going to publish of yours, Greg. I pray you will come to realize that you're wrong. You're not a bad person, but you are sincerely wrong about the CC.

The new seminarians coming into the Church to be our priests, and rightly called "Fathers", are just on fire for the Truth and love the apostolic tradition and magisterium. ALL 3 are NEEDED for the FULLNESS OF TRUTH. Our separated brethren, most of them anyway, are good Christians, and belivers, and do many great things, and help many on their journey, but sadly they don't have the FULLNESS of Truth. Been there done that, Greg.

God bless and keep you as you hopefully TRULY seek to know the Truth, and come back HOME TO ROME! The water's nice in the Tiber, even if murky at times, and Holy Mother Church is waiting for all of her prodigal children to come back home. She waits with open arms to welcome all, the great and the small.

This is the last of this on line discourse. I hope you'll be open to the grace of God, Greg. One of us is wrong, and I know I WAS...but not now. I don't know the Truth exhaustively, but I sure know the RCC is the ONE TRUE CHURCH of Jesus Christ. Now and forever!!

susie

Marie said...

Susie:)
great discussion I agree with all you have said for it is the Churches Teaching. If I can make ONE point....When Jesus says, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.."

Jesus watched as many could not accept this integral belief. Jesus did NOT chase after them and say, 'hey guys I am only talking symbolically.' No Jesus let them leave in full knowledge they were rejecting Him, The Bread of Life. Judas also refused to accept Jesus Word..we know what happened to him.

Good debate but I agree with what one Saint said, 'no soul has ever been won over to Christ by argument.'

Like you, I will pray for Greg:)

Peace & love to you:)

Marie xoxoxoo

Joyful Catholics said...

Thank you Marie. It is so sad when ex-Catholics turn so bitter. Prayer is the one thing that we all need and the best we can do for anyone. I know where Greg is at, for I was there, though never quite as angry toward the Church. God is a God of order, not chaos and 33,000 denoms and faith communitites in the U.S. is not a sign of unity!~ Thanks for praying for him, too. I hope a seed was planted and that it'll take root and he'll really go and learn what Catholics Really Believe. (a great DVD series by Dr. Ray and Fr.Kevin Fete by the way!) And Greg, if you're reading this, you can check it out at www.drraydvd.com
Dr. Ray's a good friend of mine, and I think the dvd would be a great catechism for you and others who maybe were poorly catechised, or simply believe the falsehood perpetrated by those ignorant of the Faith.

God bless, Marie and thanks for commenting. I'm off to meet a hermit nun who lives near La Crosse Wisconsin. I'll be staying at her hermitage for a couple of days in 2 weeks. : ) I LOVE THE CC! What a gift!