Saturday, June 07, 2008

How old is your church? ...

Find out here.


eulogos said...

Of course the Orthodox would reverse the first two names/dates.
There is a bumper sticker saying "Orthodoxy:Proclaiming the truth since 33 AD."

The answer to "Who schismed from whom" is a matter of faith.

Susan Peterson

Joyful Catholics said...

Thanks for stopping by and for your comment, Susan.

I would just say, everything's a matter of faith, is it not? But what is the truth? Is one's faith in what is true, or what is perceived to be true? I believe the truth that is this: "Where Peter is, there is the Church." St. Ambrose of Milan (c. a.d 340 - 397)

Joyful Catholics said...

What I mean by that is that the Church needs a collective leader. The Orthodox is part of the Church, but they're in seperation, not "cut off." Orthodox is one lung, but both lungs need ONE head to sustain life. Jesus left that "head" on this earth as Peter...and the succession has continued to this day, Pope BenedictXVI as the 265th. The Church needs the Chair of Peter. Too many spiritual fathers would seem to contradict what Jesus did, giving the keys to Peter..he didn't give them to every disciple. The Apostles all gave primacy to Peter and his final decisions. The Orthodox Church takes Rome seriously, but they're just not obedient when it comes to the Papacy and hence the struggle and the split and the schism. Both lungs again are needed, but only One Head is best, for that is how Jesus left it, as any good Commander or King would do when he'd leave, he'd leave only ONE in charge. I guess we'll find out one day, won't we? Let us pray for unity as Jesus did in John 17.

Susan said...

I'm a Catholic too, you know. But I have a son who has become Orthodox, and I have had this conversation with many Orthodox. I have seen the Church history tree as drawn by Catholics, as drawn by Orthodox, as drawn by Anglicans, etc.

The Papacy DID develop. The primacy of the apostle Peter was not exactly what the Papacy is today. There is room in there for the Orthodox to justify their position that it developed too much.

Furthermore, the west did some terrible power hungry things. It was wrong to try to impose the filioque on the east without an ecumenical council.

I keep thinking of the awful story of the papal legate putting the bull of excommunication on the high altar of Hagia Sophia at the beginning of Divine Liturgy. A deacon picked it up and ran after them out into the road, begging them to take it back. They refused, and it dropped in the dust.

The West and the Papacy were not innocent in the schism.

Susan Peterson

Joyful Catholics said...

I suppose both should say they began in 33 AD. Whether the papacy was developed fully or not,too much or not enough isn't the point. The point is, the Domestic Curch, i.e. the family, needs ONE head, not many. The Church, the Body of Christ, mystical and spiritual and physical needs ONE head Christ, who handed down the authority to Peter,as head... not the twelve. Not to "go their own way" but to follow the appointed Magisterium as is. Serious wrongs are on both sides, Susan, no doubt.'s why we need ONE head, one teaching magisterium. ONE.